Posted by Prac on February 14, 2003 at 07:45:40:

In Reply to: Re: Does God exists? posted by Akhil Shahani on February 14, 2003 at 05:16:39:

H Akhil

Interesting response. You argued; "The problem I see is your assumption that because we do not know enough about something, we can assume it exists without depending on man existing."

Response: I did not make that a general rule, but the question pertained to God. However, the logic still holds. Yes, and by the same token, we can assume it does not exist as well. We can't prove either. Do you question the validity of assuming, or the assumption I made?

You further argued: "The same logic would apply to the existance of Elves or Dragons. We do not know enough about either, so can we assume they exist?"

We have enough knowledge about G-d, to know that comparing G-d to Elves or Dragons, well, dragons still exist off course, is not comparing Apples with Apples.

As with Elves, yes, the logic still holds off course, but there is no common belief amongst mankind about Elves, excpet that they are Mythical. On the other hand, around 70% of Earth's population - calculated by numbers of people associated with formal religion - as a guesstimate off course, belief in a God who exist. By that token, existentially, G-d surely does exist, as represented by society.

Someone, a Scinetist, once mentioned how in all Scientific endeavours to prove G-d does not exist, all it has achieved is to prove G-d does exist.

We know for a fact that Man cannot be G-d, or the Universe, for argument's sake, simply because Man has been unable to replicate even ancient creation. Though Man (and only an insignificant number of Man's total) seems to know a lot about Genetics, which we agree can be seen as the footprint of Life, Man is unable to create, or sustain Life. By Science's own admission, they know almost nothing about Chromosomal existence, except that it is extremely complex, has hard-coded routines, as well as dynamic routines, which in some cases could represent true randomness. True randomness, as you well know, is extremely difficult to replicate in a laboratory.

Man still claims that the number 0 exist, but in truth, it does not. At a certain power the tiny little number 1 appears, just to play with us. Science has proven that. At the end of the day, there be very few absolutes, which remain absolute.

The theory of creation without a G-d is flawed, simply because Man cannot yet create. We merely copy, and not too well either.

I love the story about genetic engineering, where apparently "new" species are "created" by mixing up existing species. My view of Integration management holds that if you mix the colours Blue and Yellow, you do not get Green, but rather BlueYellow, a new colour..;-)

I maintain this on an existential basis, that the appearance of Blue and Green as Yellow, did not destroy either the existence of Blue and Yellow, neither did it actually change the properties of Blue and Yellow. Theoretically, excluding chemical compunds, if one could reverse colours, then my logic argues that Green could not exist without the existence of Blue and Yellow.

Off course this is a very simple example, as in nature, all colours, and degrees of colours are possible. Colours exist for which we have no names. The colour spectrum, as with the frequency spectrum, is limitless, and relative to our knowledge. Nature would unintentionally make a mockery fo my logic, but then again, it was architected to do what it does, and it definitely wasn't Man who did it. The design principles (architecture), of Nature, has been studied by Man for as long as Man existed. What have we learned, but that we would probably never understand all of it. Basics, such as Gravity, took thousands of years to codify and explain. It took some of the most recognised and brilliant minds of our time to explain natural basics to us. These people (Man) could not even do this without relying on existing knowledge of Man.

In conclusion, as opposed to Elves, G-d is a real question, due to the significance of the Universal impact on us, the all-important Man. We were designed to seek G-d, because we are so concerned about ourselves and our survival. Man is a frail species indeed. Tuberculosis still kills more than 3 million people annually. HIV-Aids..a natural virus, has killed more than any other virus in our history. About 40 million by now. And the graph is still exponentially being drawn on HIV AIDS. One tiny Virus? How could we not get the point of our existential dependence? How could we not consider, that G-d may well exist?

Malaria (medically very well known and a relatively simple Parasite) kills more than 2 million people a year. Famine, a product of Man, kills more people per year than natural plagues. War, another product of Man's arrogance, has left more people destitute in the last 5 years than there are Canadian citizens. It stands to reason that Man isn't exactly in the position to be the last word on G-d's existence, for the brightest, and most important of Man's species, can cease to exist by means of a tiny insect bite.

Who can make the Universe, cease to exist? Man? I don't think so, as we haven't even managed to meet the Universe, let alone "conquer" it.

Thanks for the talk.

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Follow Ups:

• Re: Does God exists? Akhil Shahani 09:16:55 02/14/03 (3)
  • Re: Does God exists? Alex 05:14:59 03/06/03 (0)
  • Re: Does God exists? Ben Xavier 10:29:31 02/25/03 (0)
  • Re: Does God exists? Prac 14:06:31 02/15/03 (0)

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